00:00:00: I believe more or less food is the answer to every problem.

00:00:08: as opposed

00:00:31: to a regular manual.

00:00:33: Yes, you have to scan it... ...to see what's on the menu.

00:00:38: so- Oh!

00:00:38: Tear?

00:00:39: No no no no.

00:00:40: Meaning that you have use your phone when- I

00:00:43: thought you said manual, you said menu.

00:00:45: No,

00:00:45: manual.

00:00:46: A QR

00:00:46: code menu.

00:00:47: Definitely a menu.

00:00:49: Old

00:00:50: school.

00:00:51: Go fishing or pick herbs?

00:00:54: Pick herbs.

00:00:57: Natural wine and nonalcoholic pairing.

00:01:03: Your personal preference natural wine.

00:01:06: Yeah,

00:01:07: and as on a pizza yes or no?

00:01:10: for me to know Mm-hmm But I don't judge people if they want mm-hmm.

00:01:16: Music at the mise en place or silence?

00:01:19: No music

00:01:19: music.

00:01:22: What's more important?

00:01:23: you think a spoon or a fork

00:01:29: Equal equal?

00:01:30: yeah it's a tie.

00:01:33: Street food in Asia or a Michelin star restaurant?

00:01:37: In Europe.

00:01:39: Whoo,

00:01:40: this might be controversial.

00:01:42: I'm gonna go for street food.

00:01:43: the street food Yeah

00:01:46: A little bit conversion as well.

00:01:48: fifty best Orgid Mishla.

00:01:52: It's very hard to answer that because We are sitting here doing this podcast because of The Fifty Best.

00:02:02: Yes you think so.

00:02:03: all hundred percent.

00:02:04: Rasmus Monk has just been here.

00:02:06: All this comes from Noma being fifty best at one point, be number one but so I'm incredibly grateful to what is done to us But in terms of what matters.

00:02:22: mostly for me It's the Michelin guide mm-hmm.

00:02:28: ,but what matters?

00:02:28: Mostly two four your business It's the fifty best.

00:02:34: Oh,

00:02:34: really?

00:02:35: Mm-hmm.

00:02:36: and maybe it changed today.

00:02:37: I don't know we have.

00:02:38: We've been out of the game for a while mm-hmm.

00:02:40: But you know i grew up.

00:02:41: i was fifteen when i started in a kitchen And i'm forty eight now.

00:02:45: so at that time You had i had ten fifteen years where it Was The only thing you could dream.

00:02:51: what was getting A mishling star?

00:02:53: it used to be like That.

00:02:54: how hard was it?

00:02:55: uh two Be for such a long time.

00:02:59: Such a hyped restaurant and not having the three stars with two stars.

00:03:03: It was never problem to me, okay?

00:03:06: I will tell anyone.

00:03:07: i think it's better to be climbing mm-hmm.

00:03:10: its uh I mean we were very young when we achieve success but is not necessarily The right way.

00:03:19: so I see I never saw it as a problem.

00:03:23: people made into our problems.

00:03:27: I Was Almost certain if we continued at one point.

00:03:30: We would get there.

00:03:33: And but of course I mean, we got it in the middle of the pandemic.

00:03:36: You know

00:03:36: is true?

00:03:37: It's sure yeah

00:03:38: But it was a wonderful year.

00:03:39: We've got three Michelin stars and we won number-one again In the same year.

00:03:43: he was crazy here Yeah, but it was just in the Middle of the Pandemic.

00:03:46: so it was kind of like

00:03:48: What is happening?

00:03:50: Yeah,

00:03:50: and we went to the Michelin ceremony.

00:03:52: There was nobody.

00:03:53: they're were in this giant conference hall usually full of people And we were, they couldn't have people.

00:04:00: So we're alone on the stage you know or go walking up on stage and there's nobody in the whole room.

00:04:08: I think i saw pictures of this but you didn't notice that was any public in a room?

00:04:12: There

00:04:13: is...I mean it's conference room for eighteen hundred people.

00:04:15: Yeah!

00:04:16: ...and there are six people onstage.

00:04:18: That did..And your supposed to go out cheering.

00:04:21: Still its the stars that counted

00:04:22: But it was a wonderful feeling.

00:04:24: It still

00:04:25: was.

00:04:26: Yes, it still is.

00:04:27: Every time there's something positive happens...

00:04:31: The last question of this word wrap a vegan menu at Noma yes or no?

00:04:37: Yes!

00:04:38: Of

00:04:38: course completely vegan.

00:04:39: in the summer season we are a vegetarian restaurant and In the Summer Season when you have a lot of vegetarians We have like fifteen-twenty percent of our guests are vegans

00:04:53: Which was let us now come to real part of the podcast, which was quite interesting because I remember this was also during the pandemic.

00:05:08: All of a sudden you draw a lot of criticism from some not very like-minded chefs apparently for The Dish with the duck head.

00:05:22: You were some set crossing the boundaries of creativity.

00:05:28: I didn't even know there was criticism, actually?

00:05:30: Yes it... It was because they were shocked off this duck head which was a little bit too.. With your brain in it!

00:05:41: Yeah exactly.

00:05:42: and i think uh also you mentioned once that we use so almost no meat, so why coming and making all this kind of criticism as if we were like animal...

00:06:03: Oh yeah.

00:06:05: Because it was for game season?

00:06:07: Yes!

00:06:07: It's the game season exactly

00:06:08: And we serve meat in a very specific period when its only wild meat is very controlled.

00:06:16: We are off course getting Wild Ducks.

00:06:19: We served everything from The Duck From the brain to the feet made sure to use everything, which I think if you choose to serve meat that's a great way to do it.

00:06:31: And why?

00:06:32: That was so controversial!

00:06:33: I will never understand...I mean i didn't realize there was that controversial.

00:06:36: as you say sometimes You see something on Instagram.

00:06:40: Yes of course.. I remember just back in the days.

00:06:42: It was like something that uh Was a little bit in my head because There was an important article about it somewhere In good food media where-

00:06:52: In the german one

00:06:54: in an American one, I think.

00:06:57: Honestly... I can't even remember if maybe i read it but..

00:07:00: Yeah yeah!

00:07:01: Also speaking from a journalist's perspective and have you may be little bit more in mind But It was interesting there were written.

00:07:08: it shows that for people becomes more important to know what they eat To see actually What the eat is about And this has been very nice analysis of this

00:07:21: dish.

00:07:23: I mean, today it doesn't matter what you post on the social media.

00:07:29: There will be this long stretch of people commenting a third would be great and then they act as if they hate or have just done something.

00:07:41: that's the most evil thing in earth.

00:07:45: It is the spirit right now

00:07:51: indignation on a specific moment, and then everybody forgets about it again.

00:07:56: That's

00:07:56: also another thing nothing.

00:07:58: It seems as if nothing matters because people are so upset

00:08:02: right?

00:08:02: And Then they forget in its.

00:08:07: it is strange how to and you're even a journalist You know.

00:08:11: So I couldn't imagine how it is To be in your shoes where news the latest story just flips every thirty minutes.

00:08:26: And

00:08:26: you feed a beast where nobody really remembers, nobody takes note.

00:08:32: it has to be incredibly controversial or scandalous before people stop and say okay let me read this

00:08:42: fully

00:08:47: And it's gonna get worse.

00:08:48: Yes, that's not going to

00:08:49: get better

00:08:50: is

00:08:50: so?

00:08:50: we're gonna have all the fakes coming you know?

00:08:53: Yeah

00:08:56: So speaking of this There was a big announcement of Noma closing But actually not closed.

00:09:06: no right yet

00:09:07: Not yet.

00:09:08: We will at the end of the year and then next time we open up again Will be in September of two thousand twenty seven

00:09:15: In Copenhagen in

00:09:15: Copenhagen because of course, in between we're going to have a pop-up in Los Angeles

00:09:19: in LA.

00:09:20: Yes

00:09:21: and One of the reasons why This was delayed at first was because the fires in Los angeles I don't know if you remember this there were yes

00:09:31: in spring two thousand

00:09:33: twenty five

00:09:33: right?

00:09:34: Yeah

00:09:35: terrible fires.

00:09:38: And This spring?

00:09:40: I think it was this spring.

00:09:41: No, no already one year

00:09:43: ago because we were supposed to have been there in the spring.

00:09:48: okay and the damages are still so important too know

00:09:51: Because their fire started happening We thought that whole thing would be cancelled.

00:09:56: Okay.

00:09:56: And So we ended up just pushing It almost One Year.

00:10:02: But The Whole Eclosure Things Started Doing The Pandemic.

00:10:05: In My Mind The First Lockdown Of The pandemic i Was Thinking Like most people were in their home, trying to imagine what comes after this.

00:10:19: After COVID and I had all these questions that i've been dabbling with for many years which is where are you always leading us?

00:10:27: You know it was a...I was trying to figure out with myself What Is It That I Truly Enjoy About My Work And I Know Today That I Enjoy to take part in creativity.

00:10:41: And I enjoy that you do work, they have a certain level of impact positive impact and those two things.

00:10:48: when i put them together and try to imagine...and I don't know why this year came to be but I imagined the Year of Two Thousand and Seventy which is along way from now.

00:10:59: yes yeah But on other hand it's crucial.

00:11:03: people think long term.

00:11:05: We are too stuck in what's happening next year or the next year after that.

00:11:10: And we forget the long-term mission, so I was thinking long term and I was trying to project myself as a ninety five six years old man What sort of person would I like to be?

00:11:21: And what would i like Noma to

00:11:23: be?".

00:11:24: And...I saw very creative enterprise That had impact and they worked with food on the most creative level.

00:11:33: that had impact in all corners of food.

00:11:35: And I was still active, and this is how i was envisioning myself.

00:11:41: now if you see it yourself or ask yourselves How we're working?

00:11:44: Now will that lead to end goal?

00:11:52: That's where could say okay This would not happen because If your are working the way have been for last twenty two years which You work every night.

00:12:03: Yeah, um sometimes I'm home two in the morning and i have three kids that wake up early.

00:12:12: it's a very high-pressure business.

00:12:13: uh It's also a business where you spend most of your time in production And very little time on creativity.

00:12:22: Actually because it's low paid business margins are tight we're all trying to survive.

00:12:28: year by year.

00:12:31: it was like, okay if we keep continuing this the amount I would like to spend on creativity is the reverse of what i'm doing.

00:12:38: I'd like to spent eighty percent uncreativity and twenty percent on actually production work.

00:12:43: yeah And that's why we decided ok We have make a change.

00:12:47: If you want be creative enterprise That can last for another thirty forty years still has impact and being in cutting edge we had to working different way.

00:12:58: so We envisioned that we would turn NOMA into this giant lab.

00:13:04: NOMAProjects, what's the name?

00:13:06: No

00:13:06: normal project got started because first of all when you make this decision.

00:13:11: You can see okay if we stop having a restaurant and have no revenue how do we pay the bill exactly?

00:13:15: Because what was saying now is actually you want to continue doing it but like Dumbly said without a restaurant.

00:13:22: more or less Yes

00:13:24: right with other restaurants No, no.

00:13:27: Let me let me explain this without a restaurant.

00:13:29: But the thing is I like restaurant work Mm-hmm but if you have twelve months of year restaurant Yes

00:13:35: That's

00:13:35: it.

00:13:35: You don't have time for creativity The way?

00:13:37: I want to

00:13:38: yes.

00:13:39: So i was trying To envision A model where Restaurant Work Was Where we had fun.

00:13:44: It was Like our lab as opposed to Our Way Of Supporting Ourselves.

00:13:48: so to Envision a new way to Actually Have Revenue and support your team in a way that is frankly impossible in today's food world.

00:14:01: Do

00:14:02: you know about the Food World?

00:14:03: People work a lot, they earn little.

00:14:05: most people burn out before their thirty-five and so if you want to have an organization where people can thrive for lifetime They're gonna have car A house three kids annual vacations And your are cook a regular cook.

00:14:23: many very few.

00:14:24: restaurants Can Have sixty Employees like that.

00:14:27: Maybe hotels can have them, but then your work goes into a little bit uninspiring type of work.

00:14:34: So if you still want to be in the cutting edge and so I was going through all these thinkings And i thought to myself we have to change this You know?

00:14:40: This means that We Have To Shut The Restaurant For Large Periods Of The Year And We Have Think About Projects That Are Unrelated To Restaurant Work But Related To Food & Creativity.

00:14:53: Whenever We Open A Restaurant In The Future It's Going To Be Because we need to have a place where we are testing the ideas.

00:15:01: We're working on so in normal and so no more projects.

00:15:06: was The Place Where?

00:15:10: We Wanted To Have Revenue.

00:15:14: Mm-hmm, okay Yeah

00:15:17: It's an outlet.

00:15:19: it's where we sell our fermentations.

00:15:20: if suddenly If you have No Restaurant Revenue Where will your revenue go to pay for everything?

00:15:24: So we started no More Projects.

00:15:26: its heart is not Working As well as we want it.

00:15:34: For many reasons, first of all pre-pandemic after pandemic online sales dropped like crazy and now there are great tariffs in America.

00:15:46: so with each time you know that when the tariffs got announced in america our sales drop with fifty percent

00:15:52: about fifty percent.

00:15:53: yeah okay because this was products.

00:15:58: Yes, via online shop with the newsletter and

00:16:01: yes And then that would pay for an entire restaurant team working on creativity

00:16:08: With as much stuff at the NOMA restaurant or less?

00:16:12: As much staff

00:16:13: All right.

00:16:14: So we have normal projects.

00:16:16: That's where we sell our products.

00:16:20: Then in Nomad three point oh We will have three major projects.

00:16:25: one is scientific And in this case, it's a long-term project that we're trying to fund.

00:16:33: We've been working on these for more than a year and half.

00:16:35: It is scientific projects where we work on the future.

00:16:39: staples of food.

00:16:42: What does it mean?

00:16:42: So the staples today are wheat and corn and soybean And so they feed.

00:16:50: seventy percent of all calories come from five crops In the world.

00:16:55: Many people don't know but its actually true.

00:16:58: Yeah,

00:16:58: it's a shocking amount from five crops.

00:17:01: It is shocking and fascinating at the same time.

00:17:04: Fascinating but also very dangerous in world that changing climate is changing these crops under pressure.

00:17:09: so what else can we eat?

00:17:11: And there are four families of ingredients that will be investigating.

00:17:17: one is legumes and of course soybeans or a legume.

00:17:22: But they're so many more.

00:17:24: then there's fungi.

00:17:28: We call them sea vegetables, not seaweeds.

00:17:31: Which is a huge family of sea plants.

00:17:35: Sea vegetables.

00:17:35: you're talking about algae?

00:17:38: Yes

00:17:39: exactly!

00:17:40: A giant family with incredible potential.

00:17:43: and then finally it's bugs or insects.

00:17:47: so our job here to create deliciousness to create new products and flavors, and new ideas from these four families of ingredients.

00:17:56: These four families are the base?

00:17:58: The basement...the bases what do you say?

00:18:01: okay

00:18:02: That's where there is so much potential for flavor For diversity For ecological change And things that can grow in large scale.

00:18:11: Also a lot nutrition.

00:18:16: So thats one scientific project.

00:18:17: Then we have one that's non-profit.

00:18:20: In this case, right now it's a project with the UN on new grain that is called Phonio.

00:18:27: You probably never heard of it?

00:18:29: I've never heard about it.

00:18:30: Never heard of its...

00:18:31: Check it out!

00:18:32: And also very tasty green.

00:18:34: So we are trying to develop these products around Phonios

00:18:42: With the

00:18:43: U.N.,

00:18:43: which is funding this?

00:18:45: No no We partner them and then have to go fund.

00:18:49: You went and us together.

00:18:51: That's also an ongoing project.

00:18:54: UN doesn't have a lot of money right now because of Trump as well.

00:18:57: Yeah,

00:18:58: yeah so But it's a partnership between us in them And then we have to go fund the project.

00:19:04: Then thirdly is a commercial project.

00:19:07: In this case It's uh Well actually we have the project its going-it's a first phase Of hopefully a long project with a company that we are announcing soon.

00:19:20: That you're building...

00:19:23: No, it's already an existing company and will help create new things for them.

00:19:31: And is not what do expect?

00:19:33: It isn't like to be making a new type of pizza or yogurt on the scientific level With yeast, mold & bacteria.

00:19:42: We'll help a company.

00:19:44: So these are

00:19:45: fermentation into place.

00:19:47: Yes, that's

00:19:47: is basically the some of them.

00:19:51: The superpowers we have as noma is flavor.

00:19:54: Yeah And then the knowledge and the creativity We've had over the last twenty two years.

00:19:59: if we take all of this put it together with the network?

00:20:01: We have and we decide to put it in too Practical use outside at the restaurant.

00:20:08: I believe we can.

00:20:10: we can do a lot of great things.

00:20:12: Then the idea with these, so we have this three projects and then once a year.

00:20:16: We open for three months And we will be testing.

00:20:21: everything were working on For as a menu for the restaurant

00:20:28: But now you're speaking Not of the pop-ups but off being open in Copenhagen.

00:20:35: Yes

00:20:35: in Cobain again, but each Each Year In The Future?

00:20:40: We don't know when mm-hmm where Open in during the year and we don't know with what were opening.

00:20:47: Okay,

00:20:48: so it's not... The problem is its hard to explain because has never been done before.

00:20:53: How do you how does a restaurant turn into something that's another restaurant but also as a restaurant outlet?

00:20:59: Absolutely!

00:21:00: You become creative brain That uses Restaurant knowledge and creativity To have impact In the food world.

00:21:08: I can tell you And i haven't told this to any media outlets yet but in twenty-seven, twenty eight and twenty nine it will be a trilogy.

00:21:17: A menu Trilogy.

00:21:20: each year we'll open for three months.

00:21:23: Each Year We Will Attack The Year of Two

00:21:30: Thousand and Seventy As

00:21:32: a point Of Reference.

00:21:32: So if You Study Today Where Is the World of Food Going?

00:21:38: There are Many avenues.

00:21:39: Some say robots will be making all our food.

00:21:42: Others, you know those are quite dystopian models.

00:21:45: others also say that most of our nutrition would come from just eating powders or bars.

00:21:51: yeah

00:21:51: um others say that there almost won't be any ingredients.

00:21:55: Yeah only proteins which have been farmed or whatever

00:21:58: Exactly.

00:22:00: On the other hand You'lls have others That Are Much More Optimistic About A Future That We Can Still Turn The World Of Food Into small, highly optimized localized organic food systems.

00:22:13: And the technology is there to help this system thrive not to remove this system.

00:22:21: So if you think of this and as a creative person As a food enterprise that wants to shape The future.

00:22:32: by doing this I believe we can peek into the future.

00:22:38: We can try to envision three different models.

00:22:40: One might be dystopian another one white might Be utopia.

00:22:44: and a third one might be completely technological.

00:22:48: So you're open to explore all of those avenues?

00:22:51: Of course

00:22:52: I am.

00:22:52: okay.

00:22:52: Yeah,

00:22:52: even the dystopia man

00:22:54: Even at dystopium on off course You have two because if he don't then your not a realist

00:22:59: so you don't want too To push into a direction where you want it to be in two thousand seventy one, take the possibilities of two thousand and explore.

00:23:09: Yes

00:23:10: because if You If you explore It then you can see okay?

00:23:14: I definitely do not want this.

00:23:16: And Then afterwards you Can try To See.

00:23:20: i've Seen The Future In A Way.

00:23:21: Of Course You Can Really See The Future But You Are Along With Everyone That Works At The Restaurant Plus All These New People That Needs To Work around us, which are people that are in sciences and technology.

00:23:40: And so on where all of us need to do this together and work on these new ideas together?

00:23:47: Then hopefully you can see something positive and try to shift

00:23:54: towards them.

00:23:55: Yes

00:23:56: That is at least what I want to be.

00:23:58: Of course All This Is Dependent On Us Getting All The Projects Together And this is very, very hard in a world that changes every six months right now.

00:24:09: If you imagine pre-pandemic to where we are today it's an unimaginably different world

00:24:17: and

00:24:17: where its going is like pre pandemic.

00:24:20: nobody had heard of AI.

00:24:22: the thought of war in Europe was impossible.

00:24:26: A pandemic seemed

00:24:27: to be completely

00:24:30: unrealistic.

00:24:32: All these movements that are happening, you know?

00:24:34: It's a lot of change.

00:24:36: very quickly and I think as an industry... As a restaurant industry we're adapting to this all the time.

00:24:44: We feel every single change constantly.

00:24:47: Especially in the pandemic people started to realize how deeply enrouted A restaurant is in.

00:24:54: everything was what happens in the society.

00:24:55: Of course, I mean it became a thing or restaurant become a thing.

00:24:58: of course and i think in germany and danmark we're in the same thing.

00:25:02: people always say but restaurants are unnecessary.

00:25:06: you know Why can you eat well when others don't?

00:25:10: You know, there's all these constant kind of Protestantic guilt.

00:25:16: Very protestant.

00:25:17: Yes very

00:25:17: Protestanty guilt

00:25:18: in Denmark as Well right the same people

00:25:21: say that but they have a nice home and like okay But you have an ice home And People Don't Or you Have A Nice Pillow.

00:25:28: You Know Because if it'S Only About Constantly Looking about What's Necessary to Live We don'T need much but To Feel Alive.

00:25:37: Then you need culture.

00:25:38: people need culture actually and

00:25:40: you need to meet other people.

00:25:41: You need to sit at a restaurant or cafe, and have a beer together And feel feel life.

00:25:47: That's where you feel alive?

00:25:48: And there's nothing wrong in wanting that.

00:25:51: we needed all this.

00:25:52: We turn into two like a jellyfish So that definitely doesn't work and we saw that during the pandemic.

00:26:02: What draw a little bit of criticism in the world of gastronomy was that you sort of said that the whole fine dining system as such is not sustainable.

00:26:13: What did you do with criticism?

00:26:16: I couldn't do anything because it just happened without me, what I set back then which became The World Of Fine Dining Is Unsustainable... ...I said well we're doing at a restaurant is unsustainable and That became The world of fine dining was unsustainables.

00:26:33: Was

00:26:33: it wrongly quoted?

00:26:36: I can't remember if it was quoted in the paper, because i said okay we can control

00:26:42: this.

00:26:43: It wasn't what you wanted to say?

00:26:45: Of course not!

00:26:45: Because...

00:26:47: You know.. In general our industry is a very tough industry and What does sustainable mean in the industry?

00:26:59: some people will look at it differently than I do.

00:27:02: I Know I want an organization where People Can Live And Work For A lifetime to be in the cutting edge.

00:27:09: I want to be an organization where people can also afford, to live and work in the restaurant

00:27:16: industry."

00:27:17: And that doesn't happen a lot in our industry it's true.

00:27:21: so you know we... on one hand i was like okay this is gonna happen i can control it because this not what i meant.

00:27:31: but on the other hand when i saw how upset I was also a little bit, are we in the same industry at the same time?

00:27:42: You can't say that our industries just perfect and it's taking care of its people.

00:27:47: And everyone is growing to be fifty-eight years old working in a kitchen and having most people leave before they're thirty five still.

00:27:59: I felt it both ways.

00:28:01: I was trying to make a reference to how its going for us, the way we're working is not sustainable for what you want.

00:28:07: and that became fine dining is unsustainable?

00:28:12: You have to remember there were so much criticism on fine dining in general.

00:28:18: Yes absolutely!

00:28:19: It's already a little bit cooking down there.

00:28:22: It

00:28:22: was boiling everywhere... There was sort of small revolution happening And that became the moment, um... That got used to say our fine dining is unsustainable.

00:28:33: And Fine Dining Is Dead became sort of a refrain which uh- A lot people and food magazines were starting too.. To say right?

00:28:42: Like fine dining restaurants are dead because Noma closes down!

00:28:49: I think fine dining isn't definitely not dead.

00:28:52: i don't think it will ever die.

00:28:54: but Like anything we need to adapt and push ourselves into modern times.

00:29:03: I don't know how it is in Germany, but... ...I assume its the same here that there's a lack of staff.

00:29:10: less-and-less people are actually going to culinary colleges.

00:29:15: Yes The case as well.

00:29:18: Even class has been deleted.

00:29:24: It's an industry where people are actively declining to enter, more and more so.

00:29:32: And there are things in society that other reasons for this but as also reasons In the industry For this.

00:29:41: and So how do we?

00:29:45: As an industry lift ourselves up and become modernized?

00:29:51: Not just leaders but also organizations.

00:29:54: I think there are two things here.

00:29:57: that one is a low-hanging fruit.

00:30:00: We can do ourselves,

00:30:02: i.e.,

00:30:03: how you choose to lead?

00:30:06: That's where we adapt yourself!

00:30:11: uh, change the system as such.

00:30:16: So I remain for example being a restaurant but i changed away- I lead?

00:30:22: Yes

00:30:22: you choose yourself.

00:30:23: You can actively say from tomorrow on... I'm gonna try to be much better leader..I am going read new books and take a course.

00:30:30: I will be nice everyone!

00:30:32: I'll really try it different.

00:30:34: that's upto your work.

00:30:36: personally.

00:30:38: The thing thats harder is an industry where finances are so tight.

00:30:43: It was even at Nomas.

00:30:45: It still is, and it even was at Noma of course.

00:30:50: Why should normal be different than here in Germany?

00:30:54: One could say because its so hyped Because you're all the times booked out.

00:30:58: Yes

00:30:58: but more you have that also The more.

00:31:01: Yeah

00:31:02: You know

00:31:03: I mean now everybody knows That there's a lot Of stuff at noma.

00:31:07: Sure i can

00:31:08: tell you And this isn't no secret because Its on the danish public media every year, all Danish companies.

00:31:19: they are public.

00:31:21: You can go on a website and you can find the profits for our company.

00:31:24: And our average profit is three and has been for twenty two years.

00:31:28: Three means?

00:31:29: Three percent All right, three

00:31:30: percent profits

00:31:32: Okay.

00:31:33: So I mean yeah no there's nothing to No-no.

00:31:35: i think most companies it would be like okay that's you know your in survival mode

00:31:40: Yeah

00:31:41: But uh we've had a lot of fun so its not.

00:31:44: Sometimes most of the times when we let's say, We do a pop-up some are these things.

00:31:48: They're also very expensive.

00:31:50: The profit is the experience that profit is learning new Things.

00:31:54: so I'll pop up on a finite financial way.

00:31:58: Is not the Most?

00:31:59: no that That is the opposite.

00:32:01: this the

00:32:01: opposite all right?

00:32:02: So you kind Of invest even something in

00:32:06: a zero two times will be lost A little bit there.

00:32:08: rest of them here were around Zero.

00:32:10: alright

00:32:11: yeah When You Do a Pop Up

00:32:12: Yeah

00:32:13: but um.

00:32:14: But.

00:32:15: so the low hanging fruit is that as a leader, you can actively tell yourself.

00:32:19: I could do something tomorrow myself to be a better leader, to inspire the team better.

00:32:25: but I have to do the work and actually have two read and pick up the phone and call someone somebody you admire and say Can You help me?

00:32:33: Hey how Do YOU do

00:32:34: it?!

00:32:35: These are things i've done myself.

00:32:37: they Actually DO WORK!

00:32:40: And then The more difficult one Is How Do You Create strong organizations?

00:32:46: because that will create, they'll need capital.

00:32:51: And in an industry where money is very tight it's hard to imagine how to find twenty percent more revenue or thirty percent more Revenue.

00:33:03: It really really hard Because we're also on the industry.

00:33:06: I would assume its same here with restaurant number one in Dusseldorf suddenly raises the price, thirty-five percent.

00:33:15: That restaurant will come under a lot of scrutiny and their guests would say what are you doing?

00:33:21: And so on... So for that reason it's harder to solve.

00:33:28: how do we become a modern organization?

00:33:32: You need to figure out also find new revenues

00:33:38: fruits the low-hanging fruit and

00:33:40: yes,

00:33:40: of course

00:33:41: I think you have to.

00:33:42: if you want to see yourself by two thousand seventy still in existence Still being creative on the cutting edge You have to find.

00:33:50: You have too take the chance?

00:33:52: You've to find new ways or revenue which In your opinion doesn't necessarily mean to Shut down the restaurant for half of a year.

00:34:02: Say that again

00:34:03: because Close the restaurant and then you will open it on a specific circumstances.

00:34:14: Are you saying that people who have a restaurant should think about?

00:34:18: The same thing to not all time having the restaurant opened.

00:34:23: Well, It depends of course for us.

00:34:25: It's a model that I think can work

00:34:27: Mm-hmm.

00:34:28: I think if we can find this way of generating revenue Outside a restaurant.

00:34:35: Yeah, I mean it can

00:34:36: really help.

00:34:37: this is in.

00:34:38: you can

00:34:38: feed into This creative system

00:34:41: and maybe our restaurant is may be its outdated to see your restaurant as something which Is?

00:34:49: Permanently here and permanently open from nine in the morning till eleven in the evening.

00:34:54: I don't know.

00:34:54: And now i'm just

00:34:55: a type of restaurant like noma.

00:34:58: I Can see that being Something That In these types also II mean listen This is not the reason we did it.

00:35:05: But if you imagine how The News Cycle Is Running, ten-fifteen years ago somebody brought me a book called The New New.

00:35:16: It was to illustrate that before thirty years ago when something was new...it was new for awhile maybe for half of year or for one year.

00:35:26: but then they came in the new knew meaning You're new yes!

00:35:33: There's this new here.

00:35:35: And so

00:35:36: the news never stopped.

00:35:37: and then how

00:35:38: many new, new, knew.

00:35:39: New news cycles does exist?

00:35:44: Yeah.

00:35:45: So in a place where people are constantly looking for the next thing and people are invited to go all over the world to test and check out things when you're at restaurant like ours that is not Everyday type of restaurant where it's also, you know It's not about Having a place where people can come every day and feel

00:36:13: exactly.

00:36:13: You know have a meal and bring your family or you Can come on Saturdays?

00:36:18: And then you're gonna Have a birthday.

00:36:19: its it's not that type of restaurants we have.

00:36:21: those places should be open everyday.

00:36:23: The question is how will they stay opened by two thousand seventy as well.

00:36:27: what's going to happen there, you Know with technology With Technology That spills into Robots, is your robot gonna make you omelet in fifteen years from now for breakfast at your favorite restaurant?

00:36:43: Are they going to be peeling potatoes and cooking fish.

00:36:49: It sounds pretty boring right but it's not

00:36:53: unrealistic.

00:36:53: And I'm just asking myself... Is this the dystopian version or...?

00:37:01: I think a mix!

00:37:03: I think food and restaurants are analog inherently.

00:37:07: It's an restaurant is an analog experience, right?

00:37:11: Because

00:37:11: you said you don't want to quote QR code exactly

00:37:14: and I think we will need that in a digitalized world.

00:37:17: analogue experiences were searching for it.

00:37:22: We just spoke about the online sales are dropping In some areas And thats because people wanted go to store actually touch things say hello to a store clerk.

00:37:34: but In that sense, I think restaurants are kind of safe.

00:37:40: But on the other hand if you were looking at an industry that needs modernization it needs more capital to modernize its organizations.

00:37:50: Hey what?

00:37:50: If there were some robots That worked all night and You came in the morning And

00:37:57: uh... The boring stuff has been done.

00:38:01: And when I speak to other chefs like that, they'll say oh yes but how will the young people learn?

00:38:06: The young people are not even learning now because their'e really there.

00:38:11: It's just a change and so in that sense it could be positive thing.

00:38:16: you know That you can have some machinery which takes care of parts for work But real cooking is still human experience and service as a human experience airports and all these type of restaurant experiences, I have no doubt the future will be very automized.

00:38:39: And there'll be computers everywhere!

00:38:41: I was just in Los Angeles... There's a Tesla diner where everything is robotic already

00:38:48: And automatic cars as well.

00:38:50: You drove one?

00:38:51: No, because you have to have a... I saw them all everywhere!

00:38:54: Okay

00:38:55: yeah that's

00:38:56: what i heard

00:38:57: and i saw the deliveries.

00:38:59: uh you know the small wagons that delivers mm-hmm.

00:39:04: i think it's inevitable that more of this will happen including in our industry and then i think we just have to already now imagine well how would you like your restaurant to adapt it?

00:39:18: Is it maybe as well because we're living in at the beginning with AI, a lot of new things happening.

00:39:29: At the beginning of sort-of a new era that you feel the need to care about future?

00:39:37: Because I don't know if would have felt the needs twenty years ago to protect yourself in two thousand

00:39:44: seventy.

00:39:45: No!

00:39:48: I need and a wish to work with something that has impact, also twenty years ago.

00:39:56: And when you look at twenty-years' ago of course the world was very different... ...and your right.

00:40:02: perhaps because their world is turned so immediate and fast it's like an Instagram swipe You know?

00:40:13: That you're constantly just looking What's tomorrow?

00:40:18: Or you're worried about what the next six months.

00:40:21: You can't even imagine five years from now, or you don't even plan.

00:40:25: most people when I ask them where do you think want to be in twenty years and they will say i have no idea.

00:40:29: And I didn't think of it

00:40:31: but twenty years ago you knew more-or less what would be in six month.

00:40:34: today this has changed right.

00:40:36: Right Now yes pre after a pandemic After

00:40:39: Pandemic Let's talk About After

00:40:41: Pandemics.

00:40:43: I mean, we don't know what's happening in six months.

00:40:46: We're just hoping some positive things will happen and it is a strange time.

00:40:54: But with projecting yourself into this point of reference you mentioned the realistic, dystopian way or also that optimistic way?

00:41:09: in optimistic.

00:41:14: Is this right?

00:41:15: It is, because the opposite where does that lead you?

00:41:20: I think if you have the opposite it will not...it

00:41:22: leads nowhere

00:41:23: good nowhere good constructive

00:41:25: it's bullshit and i've had since i was young this optimistic ,i grew up.

00:41:33: my family are Albanians from ex Yugoslavia.

00:41:37: My father came to Denmark And i remember being brought from Yugoslavia to Denmark because of the war.

00:41:46: It was terrible times, terrible, terrible time.

00:41:49: I remember them as much worse than now.

00:41:53: Really?

00:41:54: Yes!

00:41:55: Albania was a dictator... Well

00:41:57: our family they lived in an Albanian community

00:42:03: In Macedonia A

00:42:04: part of Yugoslavia And most Albanians left Because it's communist dictatorship.

00:42:11: But I remember there were much worse times.

00:42:14: People where desperate and people lost their mind, had family members.

00:42:19: that it was just terrible times.

00:42:21: anyone who was a part of Yugoslavia will tell this to you.

00:42:27: And when i think about why is always trying be hopeful and optimistic It comes back from the period and spiraling into only finding things that are wrong will not get you anywhere good.

00:42:53: Also, didn't you prove with the last twenty-twenty one years with Noma?

00:42:59: That you can actually initiate a lot of change...

00:43:07: You can!

00:43:08: I mean it's what let's

00:43:09: say... I always tell my

00:43:11: team is one of most impactful restaurants In the world in the last fifty or hundred years.

00:43:18: And we wish to be more, because I think it's positive.

00:43:21: food is The most important thing on earth.

00:43:25: how?

00:43:26: We eat what we eat with whom we eat How we produce our food.

00:43:30: all these aspects are more less one-to-one in how healthy the planet Is and how healthy we are as people.

00:43:39: If you're lonely and you don't eat out with friends, if you eat very unhealthy.

00:43:43: You are an healthy person!

00:43:46: And the products have grown in a healthy way... I believe more or less food is the answer

00:43:58: to

00:43:58: every problem so we wish to continue that.

00:44:05: it fuels me And I tell my kids, and even the team members this.

00:44:12: First you have to imagine your future... ...and then create it!

00:44:19: It's as simple-as that but you have be able to imagine it.

00:44:22: That is what we are going into now trying to imagine and work on our future.

00:44:28: Then see if we can somehow help create it.

00:44:32: in a small way of course But why not try?

00:44:38: Uh-oh.

00:44:48: That is actually pretty funny, you should use that as a...

00:44:51: We won't cut this!

00:44:55: Sorry.

00:44:56: She was talking about our new job?

00:44:58: Yes exactly.

00:45:03: Yeah we'll have to say when I was young every Danish kid had German in school.

00:45:10: This is why I actually wanted to ask you.

00:45:11: You know,

00:45:11: i do understand quite a bit Okay?

00:45:14: I hate it German because of the grammar.

00:45:16: How much Of what you told me?

00:45:19: how how the future of noma and uh renaire tapis role in It Is going To be.

00:45:26: How Much of A black on white concept is this?

00:45:31: no it's a movable feast.

00:45:32: yes

00:45:33: its Nothing Is ever Black or White with Me.

00:45:37: so Of course, nothing is ever black or white and I don't even believe in Black or White.

00:45:42: It's a terrible place to be... The only thing that's black-or-white are doing terrible things to others stuff like this.

00:45:52: There're some boundaries but in terms of listening to others being open to fresh ideas Being able change if something else happens You have to adaptable at all times.

00:46:04: This plan that we have, it's what were going for.

00:46:08: It is very hard to pull off...it will be dependent on large-scale collaborations with universities and big organizations or scientists.

00:46:22: All this need capital, so we're also out finding capital at the same time.

00:46:27: It's very hard and then every six to twelve months world seems in a completely different place.

00:46:34: that changes game all of the time but I feel certain where were going.

00:46:39: The question is will be fulfilled?

00:46:45: We might have to adapt And i've told team after the first lockdown.

00:46:53: If none of this works out, we'll just open as a restaurant

00:46:56: again.".

00:46:58: That will be.

00:46:59: that would end result but we have to try this... ...to see if you can create new type food organization where food flavor deliciousness ideas in food actually us as team or network our imagination helpful and productive for food in a different way than serving forty-two guests every night.

00:47:26: You didn't take the term until now?

00:47:28: Yes,

00:47:28: I would say we are moving away from restaurant type organization into a Food Innovation Organization but it's run by restaurant people.

00:47:41: that is the difference because In The Big World Of Food you will have often big organizations, and they're run by engineers or business people.

00:47:52: They might have one chef.

00:47:54: A good example is impossible foods.

00:47:57: I don't know if you had that in Germany.

00:48:00: No but we know about

00:48:01: it.

00:48:02: You knew all of this And ten years ago the whole world thought We were going to be eating All sorts of meat variants.

00:48:11: If not billions of dollars Were put into these type of new

00:48:16: fake

00:48:16: meats.

00:48:17: Three hundred engineers are working on altering the protein

00:48:22: with I don't know how many millions or even billions in invest.

00:48:26: Yeah,

00:48:26: sure and it was blowing up blowing out.

00:48:28: now it's completely deflated because at the end of the day doesn't taste good and unless we find ourselves in a society where we need to have something just to survive Then we'll eat it as long as we're not there.

00:48:44: We will only eat things that are delicious

00:48:46: And I don't know if it's only about the taste.

00:48:49: Maybe its maybe taste isn't everything?

00:48:52: Oh,

00:48:53: you know what if that thing was so delicious?

00:48:56: Yes people would eat it.

00:48:57: do think oh of

00:48:58: course if is like all this is so delicious.

00:49:01: Yeah People eat delicious things.

00:49:04: yeah they do.

00:49:06: i mean were told meat is bad for us but still eating.

00:49:10: Yeah, there's so many topics in food that are controversial.

00:49:13: People get so excited and so unhappy because people believe in what I eat is the right thing.

00:49:21: but mostly i think... ...people also think hey don't tell me what to think.

00:49:26: Yes it becomes more important you know?

00:49:29: Don't

00:49:30: do like this!

00:49:31: You're not a preacher with your finger like this And I believe too It should be.

00:49:36: inspiration and flavor is a deciding factor.

00:49:40: Yeah, if a bowl of spinach tastes as great as beef people are like oh I love this bowl of Spinach too!

00:49:47: i'll have that some more.

00:49:48: yeah even it's interesting because I always thought that It's not only about the taste but you're right when something truly delicious

00:49:59: You go for it.

00:50:01: Of course there also marketing and doing the right thing.

00:50:05: Yes The moralization of eating.

00:50:09: Yeah, but

00:50:12: pre-pandemic that has become less?

00:50:14: Yes

00:50:15: No doubt people are like I'm gonna do what i want to Do.

00:50:17: yeah

00:50:18: and this whole green wave Of not eating meat Lentol burgers And all these That has slowed down quite a bit But I think most of it is slowdown because It doesn't taste good enough.

00:50:33: That's my point.

00:50:34: If it...do you Think taste better in the future?

00:50:38: Or do you think this hype is just over because

00:50:41: it's not going

00:50:42: to come back.

00:50:43: It's gonna comeback, I'm very certain of this Because This agriculture system we have Is a System that's under great pressure.

00:50:54: The way We've adapted

00:50:55: sustainable.

00:50:56: it's probably unsustainable But its super problematic needs To modernize itself and adapt to the realities of what's going on in the world with climate that shifting, natural disasters.

00:51:15: We have a huge loss of diversity... Insects are disappearing on earth.

00:51:21: you know there is lot things and most it down how we grow food.

00:51:26: so change coming.. That will also probably be changing how eat but you know, we're not ready for it yet.

00:51:43: You sure?

00:51:46: I'm sure...I think sometimes many years ago before the pandemic i was in Turkey and were speaking about this.

00:51:55: people said oh what should happen at night.

00:51:57: And I said The thing that will happened is when..i think the disaster needs to be almost as big of a pandemic

00:52:07: in order to...

00:52:08: In order people step out of this thing and say, okay.

00:52:12: Now suddenly worldwide there's a hail storm where the hail are the size of buses or something?

00:52:19: And they can say all right we need change.

00:52:23: you know perhaps that will it might.

00:52:26: I guess my point is also it needs strong decisive government reform.

00:52:34: if we're too truly changed something And that is very, very problematic.

00:52:41: Because you don't see the...

00:52:43: Nobody can agree with each other and everybody's just worried about next cycle of election You know?

00:52:49: Even I'm assuming it's same here in Germany.

00:52:51: even within different parties there are fractions.

00:52:54: they do not agree.

00:52:56: It seems like okay we need a change.

00:52:59: There needs to be dramatic transformation of agriculture system.

00:53:04: most Europe We've had a system where we used to have very, lot of small hold and that got changed into co-ops.

00:53:12: maybe it's the same in Germany.

00:53:14: Where they all feed into large scale co-opts And so everything is produced In The Same Way.

00:53:21: It has been Very Productive.

00:53:23: Now There Is An Environmental Damage That Needs To Be Corrected.

00:53:26: So We Need To Grow In A Different Way.

00:53:28: And Its Crazy To Ask Of Farmers They Have To Pay For This You Know?

00:53:33: They Were Told In The Sixties Change into this and now we need to change something different.

00:53:38: So it needs government Subsidies, by the way agriculture has already been heavily subsidized in a different way yeah

00:53:49: but In a way that is not I said Not sustainable in my opinion.

00:53:55: you

00:53:55: can say

00:53:56: I can see But It becomes more expensive for us as a society, because it's funded to make a lot of damage which we will have to repair in couple years or generations.

00:54:17: Yeah

00:54:17: no doubts everything comes at the cost.

00:54:19: every time something is very cheap with food.

00:54:23: yeah

00:54:23: Something is paying for that.

00:54:24: one euro fifty for flower back I'll pay the price later.

00:54:30: You Will Or The Tree or the lake is paying their price?

00:54:36: I mean, we can see it now.

00:54:37: The food prices are going up.

00:54:39: I don't know if that's happening in Germany yet

00:54:42: at least in Austria It's uh... Going like this

00:54:47: same thing in Denmark and We need to get used to that.

00:54:50: mm-hmm

00:54:51: i Don't think its going back down.

00:54:53: i don't think so as well.

00:54:54: maybe stops a certain point because go like this for the next ten years.

00:54:58: Of course

00:54:58: not,

00:55:00: we will pay five euros for a two hundred fifty grams of butter but...

00:55:04: But maybe that is true?

00:55:06: We have to ask ourselves.

00:55:07: what is the true cost-of our food?

00:55:12: Of course!

00:55:13: But then everybody needs more money as well right?

00:55:16: Yeah or different priorities?

00:55:17: Different priorities

00:55:19: That's reality as well.

00:55:21: How do you travel?

00:55:23: What clothes do you buy?

00:55:25: how often do need new phone?

00:55:26: yeah Perhaps

00:55:28: we're all spending that more.

00:55:29: on what?

00:55:29: We eat in the future

00:55:32: or The governmental subsidize?

00:55:34: subsidies?

00:55:35: go there where you have a Sustainable system.

00:55:40: Yeah, probably so hopefully

00:55:42: so two euro fifty From the five-euro bother comes from the subsidies.

00:55:47: it can be produced in a sustainable way.

00:55:51: yeah

00:55:52: and I as a consumer pay the other two Euro fifties.

00:55:57: That would be.

00:55:57: I would support something like that.

00:55:59: How it?

00:56:00: how is going to work?

00:56:01: Um, I don't know

00:56:02: probably a super naive but

00:56:05: uh But i think you have To Be A little Naive.

00:56:07: yes right

00:56:08: if You Don'ts You will Never Believe in Anything you Know.

00:56:12: i Think Everyone Always Tells you Just Be Be Realistic.

00:56:20: Only Think of this.

00:56:21: you Will never get Anywhere.

00:56:22: you just Stay the Same your Frozen.

00:56:24: there's Actually i think Maybe even A beautiful last question.

00:56:29: Was it naive to open and create Noma?

00:56:39: No, It was not.

00:56:41: but he

00:56:41: was bold.

00:56:45: if you...

00:56:46: He was bald But I was more hard than it was bold i think.

00:56:50: Why is that heart?

00:56:52: If You go back its almost twenty two years And I spent a year working on normal before.

00:56:56: so it's twenty three years of my life.

00:57:01: I mean, we were a very small restaurant with a very low budget.

00:57:07: There was six gas burners.

00:57:09: there's no guest toilets.

00:57:10: they have to use the guests toilet in museum that is next door In their opening time.

00:57:18: We had a restaurant then where our lounge ended up being.

00:57:22: That was cafe.

00:57:23: we serve breakfast lunch dinner sandwiches.

00:57:26: Upstairs.

00:57:26: we had a canteen for whole building.

00:57:29: I would start my day for the first seven, eight years cutting a salami.

00:57:36: And then put them up on platters that we were six people full time when Noma opened between front back of the house and also dishwashers.

00:57:47: Um, I would open and close a restaurant myself where opens six days a week luncheon dinner.

00:57:55: My wife that's here with me.

00:57:57: We have twenty anniversary seven, eight years of our life.

00:58:01: Most days I would come home she would be sleeping and when i woke up She was sleeping.

00:58:07: so

00:58:08: you

00:58:09: see sometimes for three four days straight because it was just work.

00:58:13: And The boldness back then of saying let's open a restaurant focus more on local products.

00:58:19: It was not so bold.

00:58:21: It became more bold Because we developed it We found all these ideas But mostly it was hard.

00:58:32: And I think, that is

00:58:34: the biggest thing i tell when we have all these massimo botura!

00:58:41: Look look look... When i tell uh.. All these young sous chefs and chefs That are leaving the restaurant their opening places?

00:58:51: I just tell them It's going to be very hard Very very very hard.

00:58:57: So many problems so many ups and downs things that don't work.

00:59:02: And if you only have an optimistic mindset,

00:59:06: That's what I wanted to ask?

00:59:07: Yeah then it will be very hard.

00:59:10: If You Have

00:59:12: Then you can find solutions.

00:59:13: Okay

00:59:14: and your curious Are you gonna speak with Massimo now ?

00:59:18: You'll see

00:59:19: He is

00:59:19: going

00:59:20: to

00:59:22: like a bee looking for honey.

00:59:25: This another person that inherently optimistic I think optimistic and curious being curious.

00:59:38: And perhaps, curiosity is the most important thing because if you're curious towards other people...

00:59:47: It's not an inherently in-curiosity isn't there always a little percentage of inherent optimism?

00:59:55: Yes that what i'm saying!

00:59:56: If your'e curious then open to new ideas You're open to learning.

01:00:04: When you see things, your curious about what is it actually?

01:00:07: It's not just moving on by quickly.

01:00:12: I think curiosity sort of also the antidote to negativity and depression.

01:00:21: Yes being alive as well.

01:00:23: Yeah

01:00:24: but you can train yourself to be incurious Even if you are naturally not curious.

01:00:30: its something that you could

01:00:31: train But you didn't have to.

01:00:34: To be honest, I think

01:00:37: probably went through the thing with Yugoslavia With their whole war and my family And that forced me into being a more curious positive person Because it was very negative back then Very bleak A bleak time

01:00:56: That formed as well apparently

01:00:57: Of course.

01:00:58: Yeah if you were able positive, then it's a good thing.

01:01:07: But I know you have many former Yugoslavians in Germany and probably Austria-

01:01:15: Of course due to the geographical proximity as well...

01:01:18: Yeah of course!

01:01:19: And you will find many my age or older that lived through it.

01:01:23: You'll also find their kids who probably haven't lived though but they've seen their parents.

01:01:28: My

01:01:29: grandparents fled from Yugoslavia too during World War II.

01:01:32: Oh,

01:01:32: wow.

01:01:33: It's

01:01:33: still in the family biography right?

01:01:36: Yeah it stays with you somehow.

01:01:39: It takes generations to wash it away.

01:01:43: so I think that is a main moment where i became more of a positive person because um...I feel like I can remember telling myself Because the opposite leads nowhere.

01:02:02: What's alternative?

01:02:03: If you have it in your mind and reflect it, maybe it leads automatically to value the curiosity.

01:02:09: The nature of curiosity?

01:02:11: Yeah yeah I mean don't get me wrong i can still be negative.

01:02:15: And i can also be You know...you wake up and read the news and like oh fuck

01:02:19: We all have bad days right?

01:02:22: What happened today?

01:02:23: what did this crazy guy say over there and so on?

01:02:28: but now im very hopeful.

01:02:35: this transformation we're going to go through is very difficult.

01:02:38: It will be difficult, but if it works out... Wow!

01:02:48: Let's see in

01:02:49: two or

01:02:50: three years that we'll have much better clarity on where we are.

01:02:55: I might be back here and we are at a cat restaurant open six days a week to survive And i am running the meat section you know?

01:03:06: Or we might have transformed and...

01:03:10: And everything goes by plan more or less.

01:03:12: By plan until something happens, you'll need to change again?

01:03:15: Yeah You know.

01:03:19: So We will see.

01:03:20: Thank-you so much for this deep dive into what moves you What pushes you For your openness.